Guests: Lianna Chong & Abram Kielsmeier-Jones.
In this episode, we are joined by Lianna Chong and Abram Kielsmeier-Jones of The Spiritual Safety Center to discuss the impact of moral injury, what constitutes spiritual safety and spiritual abuse, and the research behind their all new Spiritual Safety Survey. Plus, Robert and Laura talk about how they know they've found "their people" and the importance of lament.
Resources Mentioned:
Take the Spiritual Safety Survey
Sign up for an upcoming Spiritual Safety training (note: the last cohort begins 10/28/2026!)
Preorder Building a Safer Church
Read the Development of the Spiritual Safety Scale article
Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.
